Disclaimer: What you're about to read is of a general nature and doesn't take into account your personal financial situation, needs or objectives. We recommend you seek financial advice before making any decisions about your super and consider the relevant UniSuper PDS and TMD.
Leah Mackenzie: Hello and welcome to the International Women's Day 2025 edition of Super Informed Radio, the official UniSuper podcast. My name's Leah and I'm the Head of Marketing here at UniSuper—here with you to celebrate not just International Women's Day, but another one of the brilliant women that makes UniSuper tick. Today I'll be joined by Nicole Gower, Deputy Chair of the UniSuper Board, Vice-President (Operations) at the University of Sydney, Harvard alumni, and so much more.
Nicole’s been a part of our Board since 2017 and Deputy Chair since 2023, and with her experience both here and at the University of Sydney, it's safe to say she represents exactly what our fund is all about. Today, we'll be taking a look at the path Nicole has taken to get to where she is today, uncovering her passion for education, and discussing the barriers that still exist for women in the workplace. All that’s still to come, but first, let me begin by saying, Nicole Gower—welcome to Super Informed Radio.
Nicole Gower: Thank you, Leah. It's wonderful to be here.
Leah: I'm so excited to have you here today because obviously you're a very accomplished woman. What did you want to be when you're a kid?
Nicole: Well, first of all, thank you for saying that. I appreciate that very much. And, I mean, it's interesting. If you asked me when I was a child, what I wanted to be, I wanted to be an actor. That was my passion growing up. I loved theatre, I loved dance, I was a ballet dancer—not a great ballet dancer, I have to say, but I gave it a good go. But I really loved theatre. And so actually coming to law and then sort of the world of, of the corporate world, was not how I thought I would spend my career.
Leah: So how did you end up studying law, then, if acting was your buzz?
Nicole: I had actually watched a lot of great TV shows where lawyers seem to do some pretty great and fun things. It looked a bit drama-filled. I enjoyed problem solving. I enjoyed working with people. And so actually I did an arts law degree thinking, okay, that gives me some options. I found a real passion for employment law and human resources law and then things kind of went from there.
Leah: That’s fascinating, and I do see the part the drama in law… I can see why you ended up there. I studied PR because I really wanted to do journalism, thinking that this was the path. And yeah, here I am in superannuation. So it's a strange and meandering path we lead. So you're in HR law. How did you end up back into the university sector?
Nicole: Well, it's funny you say ‘meandering’ because as I look back on my career, that really resonates for me. Had you said to me, ‘you're going to be a chief operating officer of a big university’, I never would have thought that that would be where I might end up. I was very much on track to be a partner of a law firm. That seemed to be my sweet spot. And then I found my way to universities almost by accident. I had decided I wanted to leave the law firm that I was working in. I was one of those lawyers, like many, who had a post-employment restraint, which meant I couldn't work with certain people and in competition with my prior law firm. And so I thought I would take a year and do an in-house job as a lawyer in an organisation. And it so happened to be a university. And that was almost 20 years ago.
Leah: It's a familiar story. I think I was meant to be in super for a day, it’s been 24 years now. Very familiar story. So UNSW, you've been at Macquarie as well, and now University of Sydney.
Nicole: Yeah. So almost 20 years initially at UNSW in legal roles and then in HR leadership. I then had the incredible opportunity to go to Macquarie University as their HR Director and Vice President of HR—a bit a bit over ten years ago, and I was there for almost a decade. I had the great joy of being on their executive group during that whole time and working with a wonderful vice-chancellor for that whole time. And then about six months ago, moved to the University of Sydney as their Vice-President of Operations.
Leah: And we don’t get to these wonderful jobs on our own, and we have a lot of people that we work with and we lean on along the way. We often talk about how women lift each other, but have there been any men in your career that have really helped pave the way for you?
Nicole: They definitely have, both in the workplace and at home, actually. So let me start at home. I couldn't do what I do without an incredibly supportive partner and husband. And so, you know, for me, that's a big part—how we work together, how we share responsibilities at home for our children. That's been a big part for me as well as my dad, actually—my parents are really actively involved in helping us out, helping out with children, particularly when they were younger. That's been a big part of my story. And then at work, there’ve definitely been some really key mentors, sponsors of me who are men. The vice-chancellor I referred to, a wonderful man by the name of Professor Bruce Dowton who was the VC I worked with for ten years, appointed me to an executive role at a pretty young age, 35 years of age, and then backed me to take on a chief operating officer role five years later. He's been a great mentor to me, watching how he works, but also giving me chances, backing me. And there have been others that I would put into the category of sponsor. So, people who've put me forward for things, you know, quite sort of quirky and unusual things. So the way I found myself into superannuation was actually through a very sort of small professorial superannuation fund that someone put me forward for, to be on the board of. When I moved to Macquarie, I had really strong backing from a deputy vice-chancellor that I had worked with previously. So, I look to those men with great gratitude and respect for the role that they have played in my career as well.
Leah: That's excellent, and I like that. The role of sponsor versus mentor is really important, and the way I talk about that is a sponsor is knowing that that person is going to talk on your behalf in the room when you're not there. And it's really important to align yourself with people who are going to do that, and that you do that for other people as well. Have you mentored lots of people along the way?
Nicole: I have and, you know, often I have people come to me and ask me to have a mentoring conversation and it’s so funny, Leah, you know, almost it's people are apologetic in asking, ‘could I have a bit of your time?’ For me, it's a great pleasure spending time with people talking about their career, their goals.
Leah: And have you had a mentor along the way?
Nicole: I've had a couple of men and women who I have kept in contact with, and look back on with great gratitude and respect, but there's no kind of one person that I would say ‘absolutely, that person is my mentor’.
Leah: I would say the same. I've learnt a lot from a lot of different people, and sometimes it's the bad behaviour that I've learnt more from than some of the things that I aspire to be. Things I don't want to be.
Nicole: I've definitely had some of those too. Fortunately not too many, but certainly had some too where—yeah, we learn from both the good and the bad, right?
Leah: Absolutely. So you've obviously got a lot of strengths. What are the areas that you felt like you've had to really work on probably a little bit harder than the others?
Nicole: I think the big transition from me was going from a technical expert to a generalist, and that shift in value from knowing all the answers, knowing your area of expertise really well—for me, that was employment law, human resources, you could ask me anything and I could give you the answer. And then when I shifted to a chief operating officer role, I was relying then on my leadership and what value I could bring across a range of people who are experts in their field. That was a big transition.
Leah: It becomes, how do I empower the people that know? Because I can't know everything myself.
Nicole: Yeah. And how do I… and I think a big part of that is asking really good questions, listening really well, being able to connect the dots. And that's how I've been able to really contribute at that enterprise and organisation-wide level.
Leah: Fantastic. What's next for you?
Nicole: Well, I've just taken on a very big, exciting job at the University of Sydney. So, I'm six months in. I've got a really interesting portfolio there. Everything from finance, IT, university infrastructure on what is a beautiful campus with sandstone—a whole range of buildings from wonderful new buildings to old heritage buildings. An incredible campus there. Central operations services, human resources, risk. It's a big portfolio. And look, we have a really exciting transformation and strategic agenda as well, about how do we make Sydney University a great place to work and a place that works better. And so how do we ensure that for every student, every staff member, it's a fantastic experience. And I find that deeply motivating. And so for me, that's really, you know, the next kind of number of years are really working with my teams to bring that vision of a better place to work and a place that works better, to fruition.
Leah: Excellent. That does sound very exciting. How does working with UniSuper and being on the Board—how did how did you end up doing that?
Nicole: Interesting story. If I looked back to the younger version of myself, I didn't really know a lot about superannuation. And then when I was in the university sector, one of my sponsors gave me an opportunity to sit on the board of what was called a professorial superannuation fund. So back in the old days, professors had created this superannuation scheme. They closed a very long time ago, I think as UniSuper was created. And for me, it was an opportunity to sit on a board and learn about governance and extend my skillset. But of course, as part of that, I learnt a lot about superannuation and seeing how important great retirement outcomes are for the quality of our life.
And then an opportunity to be considered for the UniSuper Board came up. And my pathway here is actually through an election pathway. And I remember thinking, would I put myself forward for election? And I thought ‘alright, put myself out there’, you know. And I was successfully elected. And that was, I think, about seven years ago now. And so, it has been an incredible opportunity to really contribute to the superannuation sector, to UniSuper who… you know, I think is an incredible fund and does wonderful things in many different ways, both in terms of retirement outcomes but also more broadly. And so that love and that passion for superannuation, retirement outcomes, quality of life—I've had this opportunity to work really directly in that space. And what I have found interesting is being both an executive managing our senate—so, similar to a board—but also, being on a board and working closely with an executive team has given me both sides of the management and board equation, and that has been great for my career too.
Leah: That's a that's a really good point, actually. You know, now, what boards are looking for when you're preparing yourself. Any hot tips?
Nicole: I now know what questions people don't want me to ask, and also what questions I might be asked in my executive role. And actually, I think that exchange between executive teams and boards is a real high-value creation, if you can get it right. And there's definitely an art in getting it right. So, I would hope that through being on both sides of that, it's, you know, I've had the opportunity to try and get that right balance.
Leah: I want to take you back to when you're talking back when you were 35 and you got offered this opportunity in an executive position. How did you manage those first few months in that role, being at such a young age? And I'm sure, you know, you're probably younger in your career and, people would have had opinions about you being young. How did you cope with that?
Nicole: It's interesting. I actually had a mentoring conversation with someone yesterday who asked me this very question around, how did I feel as a 35-year-old sitting around an executive table with people—most of whom were 10-20 years my senior—how did I manage my confidence in that? And actually, I think it comes back to me in a very funny way, my relationship with my parents, because for me, that didn't feel uncomfortable at all. I grew up in an environment where my parents very much treated their children as equals. They were interested in my viewpoints, and we had quite a mature exchange from quite a young age. So I think part of that meant that I didn't feel uncomfortable having good dialogue, debate, discussion with people who were older than me, more experienced than me. And certainly I think I was very respectful of the experience around the room, but also knew I had been appointed to bring something to that conversation and felt quite comfortable doing that.
I think the lesson for me in that in was actually around the responsibilities that you hold as an executive group member, how you contribute, how you show up, events that I needed to attend. And at that stage I had very young children. I had a two-year-old, I had a five-year-old. So actually, the challenge for me was less the comfort around the executive table and more how I was going to juggle and balance my life.
Leah: That’s a lot. And how you show up is so important. I always talk to the team about ‘what's your role in the room’, and really understanding that if you're invited to a meeting, you're there for a reason—and own that position that you're there for. I can't imagine how that would have been at 35 though, with two young kids. That’s a lot to juggle.
Nicole: But I think about that, too. I love that framing, Leah, around… and I think about that too, sometimes I'm invited to a meeting and I think ‘this is somebody else's meeting—they want me here to listen, they have something they want to achieve’. So, not always feeling like you have to own the room. You know, sometimes somebody else is in the lead, they want to drive that discussion. And so I think that's a leadership learning, too—what role you need to play varies depending on the context.
Leah: Yeah, absolutely. Let's turn to International Women's Day because this is what we're here for. What does it mean to you?
Nicole: It's funny, I think about this every year. And I think, in part, that's what International Women's Day is actually for—it's a moment to pause and reflect, and to reflect on progress and achievement and what's going well, to reflect on where there's still real work to do. And then I think, too, about—what are some of the new and emerging issues or things that might be different since last year? And this year does feel a bit different in terms of some of the issues and some of the challenges, for women in the current world.
Leah: It's quite challenging. Particularly what's happening in America.
Nicole: Yeah, there's a lot in that, I think. I mean, I completely agree—geopolitically, I think it's a really interesting and challenging time. I had a really interesting conversation with Lisa Annese, who was the CEO of the Diversity Council of Australia, now CEO of Chief Executive Women. And she and I sat down this time last year and we had a conversation about this. And one of the things that we talked about, is actually about the next generation of men—and around some of the challenges about how women are represented online, in social media… we had quite a sort of rich conversation about that. And the challenges not just that are faced today by women, but that could be shaped by some of the really negative, representations of women in those online forums.
And so this is, to me, a great example of some of the new and evolving issues that are being faced. And as a mother of teenage boys, what are the things that we can be doing to shape not only the current workplace, but the future generation? And things that were not around when I was growing up around how women might be represented in those forums.
Leah: I've got a teenage son as well, and it's really challenging to make sure that he's got clean socks, but make sure that he knows how to clean his socks. That I'm not always responsible for making sure that you've got clean socks, and that he's capable of doing it himself.
Nicole: I had a wonderful moment last night where I was here already for UniSuper and my family were at home, and my husband went off to an information evening at school. And the great moment was one of my kids cooking dinner for when he got home. And actually I have to give credit. Both of my kids do a pretty good job around managing lots of things, including cooking and contributing around the house. So, yeah, there's great hope for the future.
Leah: That's good to know. It's good to know. I might send mine up. No, he's a good boy. So far!
You mentioned earlier that you didn't know a lot about superannuation growing up, and that's true for the majority of Australians, not just women. What personal tips would you have to get younger people engaged with their finances, or anyone for that matter?
Nicole: Look, first of all, I think the most important thing is to become interested and engaged, and actually, it has never been easier to do that. You know, the emergence of digital tools—UniSuper’s app, I am on very, very regularly. It's so easy to kind of log in, see what your balance is, use tools. So I think the first thing is engage. Things like… questions that might come up at 11.30 at night, you think, ‘gosh, I wonder how much I would need to retire comfortably’. You can go into the app, you can use a tool and actually work that through. So, I think taking an active interest. The other thing I would really recommend is engaging with advisers. Again, you know, big financial opportunities there if you can talk to people. Again, UniSuper has some incredible offerings here—people you can speak to… great ideas where, if you get onto them early, they can be huge opportunities for financial future. And not just kind of safe retirement outcomes, but good financial health. So, I would really encourage people to engage, and not just in those years before retirement. Most people have that turning point where they start thinking about retirement and become interested. But actually, the power of compound interest—start early! And there's incredible opportunity there.
Leah: Absolutely. That would always be my hot tip is compound interest. And, any of my nephews that come to my house, I like to show them pictures that compound interest, just little stuff now—doesn't need to be a lot of money, but it makes a big, big difference down the track. And it doesn't need to be in super, it can be invested elsewhere, but get onto it early. That would have been my message to my younger self. What would have been your message?
Nicole: If I was speaking to a younger Nicole, what would I say? Look, I think I would say it's okay not to have the road mapped out entirely. That actually, you know, we talked about this—this meandering way that things evolve, opportunities that come your way—that actually there's great opportunity in that, and being prepared to consider those opportunities as they come. You don't have to have it all mapped out.
Leah: Yeah. And what you do at university doesn't mean that's what you have to do for the rest of your life.
Nicole: Exactly, right. And I say that to a lot of young people, actually, particularly those thinking about year 11, year 12, what am I going to study at university? There are so many pathways to university, and often people change either their degree or their specialisation or what they want to do. And often there's a sense, I think for young people, of ‘you have to have it all figured out’ and you absolutely don't—either for university or in careers.
Leah: Yeah. Very true. So what's next? What do you want to do when you grow up?
Nicole: I often think about this. What do I want to be when I grow up? I don't know! Look, I'm not quite sure. I'm enjoying what I'm doing now, and I think there's power in enjoying the moment and taking the opportunity that's before you. So, for me, you know, there's… having recently started a new job, enjoying it very much, seeing great opportunity to add value and have a positive impact—I'm very much holding myself in that present moment. I really enjoy leadership. I think my best days are when I feel I have served the community well. And so I'm keen to keep learning and continuing my journey in leadership. And it is absolutely a journey. I keep learning every day. And look, that might take me towards, you know, future roles. I don't know that we've ever had a vice-chancellor who's been appointed from the professional staff mix of universities, whether or not that's a pathway for me… we'll see.
Leah: Yeah. And what about retirement? Which may seem like a long way off for you.
Nicole: Yeah. Look, I do think about it. We all have those days where we think about retirement. For me, 20 years down the track, how do I think about retirement? Partly it goes back to… I mentioned my parents have had a wonderful role in shaping my life and my children's life, so I think about being a grandparent. That's important for me in retirement and having the financial stability to be able to spend time with my grandchildren. And I think, on International Women's Day, that idea of how we manage care for children, for older people, that's a big part of ensuring success for women in the workplace, too. So, I'd love to be able to contribute for my children, in helping to care for my grandchildren, if that ever happens.
Leah: I like that, looking after the grandchildren and giving people space to build their own careers. It's so important. Excellent. So, what is the most common question you get asked when you're mentoring somebody?
Nicole: Look, by far the biggest theme, particularly from women that I mentor, is about how to balance work and life. For sure. And people often say to me, Nicole, how do you do it? How do you have a big exec role, a board role, a parent. And the honest answer is ‘some days better than others’. And so I always think, everything in balance. Never judge how that balance is going by any particular day or week. Make those kind of micro adjustments over time. But I have found probably the one piece of advice that was given to me when I took on an executive role that has stayed with me, and I still think about it today and I use it every day, because I think for many of us, one of our biggest challenges is time—there's not enough hours in the day, there's always emails in the inbox, if only you could have a few more hours in every day. And I had some great advice from one of my mentors who said, ‘Nicole, think about managing your energy, not your time’. Because there are some activities that we do that give us energy and are highly motivating, and there are some things that take away our energy. And as I think about how I spend my day, I often think about that, you know, how do I balance up activities that I know give me energy and motivate me? And of course, in all of our jobs, there are things that take energy that you enjoy less so. But what I want to be able to do, is when I get home at the end of the day, not just have time for my family, but have the energy to make that time valuable time. And so I still think about that a lot. And I find that also helps as we think about our careers and what might be a next opportunity or moving into a different space. It also helps you to get a sense of what do you enjoy, what gives you energy, what motivates you, and how could that shape that next career opportunity.
Leah: That's excellent. I really like that. And it's true, isn't it? I know I need to be by myself to get my energy levels back up again. What do you do in your downtime to fill your cup back up?
Nicole: A range of things, and this might sound funny—I really enjoy going to the shops. Whether or not that's grocery shopping. There's something I just enjoy, particularly on my own. I really love that time. Just to wander the shops, do something just for me. I love to read.
Leah: I love reading too. What would be your favourite book, or a book that you would always recommend to someone?
Nicole: The book I recommend the most—if you haven't read it, my tip is a book called The Midnight Watch.
Leah: Oh, I haven't read it.
Nicole: It's a book by David Dyer, an Australian academic who fictionalised a story from the sinking of the Titanic. And it's a true story, he did his PhD, investigated all of the historical records on this, actually, about a ship called the Californian, which was a working ship in range of the Titanic when it sank—saw the flares, heard the calls for help and did not respond. And it's clear as well that had they responded, there was enough room to actually save every person on the Titanic. But did not respond. Factually correct, there was a coronial inquest into this which David Dyer explored, and then he wrote this book which kind of fictionalised what happened on the Californian and why they didn't respond. And if you're interested in leadership and how organisations work, it's an incredible story about what happens when things don't go well and what can be the causes of great failures like this. So The Midnight Watch, David Dyer.
Leah: I’ll put it on the list. That sounds fantastic. Thank you so much for joining us today on Super Informed Radio, Nicole, I’ve learnt a lot about your career and about you as a person and what makes you tick. Thank you for being so generous and sharing that with us today.
Nicole: Leah, thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure being here, and wonderful to chat about all things leadership, career, International Women's Day, and great retirement outcomes for our members.
Leah: Well, that wraps up this special International Women's Day edition of Super Informed Radio. My thanks to our guest, Nicole Gower, for joining us for this episode. I think what’s really stuck with me is Nicole talking about energy and time, and how energy is so much more important to maintain throughout your day, rather than whether you've got enough time. And we need to all be really self-aware of what our energy levels are looking and feeling like, and being our best selves in each moment throughout the day—not just at work, but at home as well. I also really enjoyed her talking about mentors and sponsors and the important parts that they've played in her life, but also her playing such an important part in other people's. I think it's really important for all of us to be a good sponsor in the work room, in the meeting room, in the board room, and in life. If you enjoyed hearing from Nicole and you're interested in the stories of other UniSuper women helping to create great futures, visit unisuper.com.au/women. We are UniSuper, the place where bright minds and passionate people strive to think great, and create a future worth retiring for.
Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next time.
The information discussed in this podcast is of a general nature and may include general advice. It doesn’t take into account your personal financial situation, needs or objectives. Before making any decision in relation to your UniSuper membership, you should consider your circumstances, the PDS and TMD relevant to you, and whether to consult a qualified financial adviser. For a copy of the PDS and TMD, call us on 1800 331 685 or go to unisuper.com.au/pds. Past performance isn’t an indicator of future performance. The views expressed by the presenters of this podcast are their own—they don't necessarily represent the views of UniSuper. Prepared by UniSuper Management Pty Ltd (ABN 91 006 961 799 AFSL No. 235907) on behalf of UniSuper Limited (ABN 54 006 027 121 AFSL No. 492806) the trustee of the UniSuper fund (ABN 91 385 943 850).